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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:44:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Malcanis
What mechanics would make few ships better than many ships?
It's been discussed before.
More objectives that cannot be stomped sequentially (blob flying from objective to objective = fail). Less chokepoint warfare.
More logistics issues which makes blobs difficult to support. That's why such things don't happen in real militaries very often. It's too expensive and difficult to keep in the field.
Probably also some kind of detriment to having a huge blob. Having friendly ships get in the way of gunfire would help, but not much in a 3d game. Some other kind of efficiency reduction/command control issue to make blobs harder to use.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.04 16:02:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Cat Molina
This is true. However, in your own example you mention an existing reward for low-sec: the crappy market. From what I've seen, pirates tend to dislike logging on the alt, shopping, and then hauling the crap in. A careful pilot could make good money running goods to the pirate hubs (especially with the upcoming Blockade Runner changes).
And yet, no one really does this. Why? The reward is there (increased profits; challenge; danger)... so why do so few do it? It's not really that risky, even for a solo w/alt scout pilot.
Actually it's quite risky without a scout but it can be done. In fact I have a rep in my own corp for doing just exactly this. Going dangerous places and hauling goods back - and I've been doing it in an Iteron III of all things.
Playing tag with a solo interceptor in an Industrial is actually quite fun. It's exciting, there's risk and it can be a good time. Now that I know of the existence of Blockade Runner ships (which I only found out about recently) I'm training for one.
However, and it's a big however, it requires a fair bit of player skill and some luck. The player skill isn't something an Empire type can gain except for the hard way, losing lots of ships, or by being trained by one of the few of us who have been making a stab at it.
The biggest reason it isn't done more, is metagaming. Pirate players simply have high sec alts to buy and haul their stuff to low sec. Their low security status only keeps their pew pew out of Jita or wherever. It's easy to log onto another character, transfer the stuff and voila - no need for a smuggler to improve markets. 0.0 is a little easier in some ways as there are markets that are in rough shape and jumping freighters down is a pain in the tush, so there's money to be made there sometimes. If you can get someone to buy your stuff.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.04 17:11:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Wouldn't be necessary if low sec served the blindingly obvious purpose it has, of being partially safe. No combat at gates and stations, but mining/ratting/missioning can be dangerous.
The idea, based on the write up in the various EVE player's guides, is exactly that. Low sec is supposed to be a step down from High Sec and a step up from Null Sec.
It ain't.
The ONLY thing about low sec that is more safe is the lack of bubbles. This means that in a properly fitted ship you can actually run the occasional gate camp without just dying. You still have to be a decent pilot to do it and a cloak helps a LOT but you can do it. (You can sometimes do this in null sec too, but it's considerably harder to do with bubbles in place and you'll only get away with it against small camps).
Outside of that one small increased safety factor, Low sec is much scarier to operate in. Solo or otherwise. The reasons are simple:
1) Like in Null Sec, anyone can shoot you.
2) Unlike in Null Sec, you don't have organized Sec settings to let you know who the good guys and bad guys are. NBSI or NRDS don't work in Low Sec unless you entirely don't care about your security standings. This makes Local less than useful for intel purposes and means you can't just shoot first and ask questions later if you want to ever go to High Sec.
3) There isn't always a good way of telling who the enemies even are. A group of totally unrelated folks might be ganged up looking to start a fight.
These things mean that solo play in low sec is dangerous in the extreme as the pirates only seldom fight solo. They're established, this is their home and they likely have friends around ready to jump in on any fight that might start. Indeed, these are standard pirate tactics. In 0.0 you know. If they're neuts or reds, assume they're there to kill you (you'll almost always be right).
Missioning in low sec? You'll be scanned out and engaged by PvP ships while in a PVE ship and probably also engaged by rats. The only way to protect against this is to bring friends of your own to help you - which, since they'll want something for this, dramatically brings down the mission pay per character even if no pirates show up.
Some things that COULD help low sec missioning:
1) Make the missions such that PvP ships are the standard AND
2) Ensure that mission enemies do not mindlessly target one ship and one ship only. If new ships warp into a mission area there should be a chance that the mission targets will engage them. Whether this be by triggering new spawns, activating inactive rats (rats should never stay inactive when in range of a fight anyway unless there is a good in-story reason for it), switching targets or all of the above - jumping into a mission should be a hazard. Otherwise it is an easily exploitable mechanic by attackers who simply wait until a ship is weak and then jump in using the rats as erstwhile allies. Perhaps standing with the rat faction should play a part in who they make their preferred targets?
Low sec should have gate guns that activate on any aggression and autofire on anyone who has a low enough standing with the owners of those guns. These should be MEAN enough that they prevent casual gate camps and if destroyed should trigger navy spawns to the area to defend the gate. This would at least make camping interesting, and non-mindless.
So, there are some ideas for you.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 20:03:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Malcanis
You reject the concept of any obligation to support the team in order to have safe access to those belts and moons and rats and you wonder why they're not interested in sharing.
And those who insist on those 'obligations' frequently fail and fall apart if they do too much of it. For which see Souls of Vengeance (and plenty of others).
Yes, Malcanis, people do frequently reject obligations on their liesure time. They may accept responsibilities and fulfill those self imposed obligations that they feel that they must, but that's not the same thing.
Being in many of those Alliances is just too much like work, and really who needs another job?
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.04 20:46:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Cat Molina
I'm not a pirate. I don't know what the hell I am... but it's certainly not a pirate. <snippage>
Based on that description, I think it would be appropriate to call you a duelist.
We should set up a fight sometime, Cat. I like your style and I'd probably learn something even while losing.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.04 20:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll
I wouldn't wanna play this game as a single character industrialist. Most of my potential clients would already have dedicated alts for doing precisely what i do.
It's drifting far off topic but I entirely agree about the metagaming aspect.
I have one account. I have two characters, the second of which was created to do Factional Warfare but hasn't yet got the standings to join a militia yet. Given how little time I have to fly him and the fact that I can't justify the expense of another account to let him train while I train Jarvis he'll probably never amount to much.
I think that multiple Alts are horrible for the game and break all kinds of mechanics, but I realize that is a very minority and probably unpopular opinion.
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Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente
The Flying Tigers
United Front Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.05 19:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cat Molina
But only a covert ops, recon, inty, or brave fool would attempt any long journey in 0.0 without a scout alt.
Oh it's not quite so bad as all that. I've made a bit of a reputation in my corp for routinely doing it in smallish Industrials, cargo cruisers and the like. I can't fly any of what you list above. And I do it without any kind of alt and only very rarely do I call for or need a scout (when I do it's always another player).
Just remember, the map has some very good free intel on it. Your cloak is your friend and luck is your mistress and if you hit a bubble it's a battle of wits between you and the camp. Sometimes you can win.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
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